Auria 48khz recording problem

[Stewartludwig]

Hey all,

I had 30 or so crashes today trying to record in Auria at 48 kHz project setting on my ipad 4 retina. I could arm the track and hit record but at payback it crashes then after reboot Auria just crashed and RE crashed many times over. When I finally got Auria open again the same thing would happen all over again. Auria has always recorded fine at 44.1 and still does.
As a test I then tried the same I/O setup using the Multitrack daw app and had no problem recording in both 44.1 or 48. This also cannot be an ipad ram issue as these are new empty test songs with just 1 track being recorded in as a test. I have been using Auria with drumagog and amplitube etc for the past year at 44.1 with no issues at all. I only decided to try 48 khz today for the heck of it and found this issue. FYI, I can also record and playback a few dozen tracks in 44.1 no problem.

This 48KHz issue is seemingly specific to Auria and it is repeatable every time.

Simple enough setup:
IOS 6.0.1 ( I don't like IOS 7 and don't want to use it)
Auria 1.140
Ipad 4 retina
I/O: Roland dou capture ex and HD irig

Any thoughts Rim?
Cheers,
Stewart

[Rim]

Auria runs great at sample rates up to 96K, even with iOS6, so it must be something unique to your setup. Are all other background apps closed? This would be my first suspicion, since very few apps support 48K. Have you tried this with an absolutely clean project? In other words, reboot your iPad, close app apps (both of these must be done, as rebooting doesn't close apps), then open Auria, and create a new project at 48K. Add one track of audio and press play. Does it crash then?

Rim

[Stewartludwig]

Hey Rim,

Yes to both. I always close all apps before recording ( home button x all apps etc.) I also rebooted then created new projects as mentioned earlier. ( I do no believe in leaving other apps open as a general rule). Again this is totally repeatable and only happens to Auria as multitrack DAW records 48KHz no problems at all with the very same I/O gear.

FYI: My version was originally the " LE" version that I upgraded to the full Auria If that makes a difference?

Cheers,
Stewart

P.S. DRUMAGOGG kicks ass ( and i use it regularly in Auria) but I also luv IGOG !

[Rim]

Can you try the same test without your interface plugged in?

1. Create new project at 48000
2. Import one audio file
3. Press Play

Rim

[Stewartludwig]

Hi Rim,

-Test 1. I first did what you suggested ( created new 48 project in Auria w no actual input) this worked fine.
-Test 2 Same thing ( created new 48 project) then used HD irig to record in successfully at 48 in Auria using Overloud THM
-Test 3 Using Multitrack DAW ( created new 48 project) HD irig record in successfully at 48 also
-Test4 ( created new 48 project in Auria) using Roland dou capture EX input produced same results as yesterday. Auria crashed and would not record at 48 with Roland EX.
-Test5 ( created new 48 project in Multi DAW) recorded in successfully at 48 using Roland EX.

FYI: I also tried using amplitube to record into Auria at 48 using audio bus. No go at 48 only 44.1. I never noticed Audio bus was only 44.1. That is a surprise as i assumed it was 44.1 and 48. (Just thought I'd mention this but I'm sure you are fully aware but others reading this may not)

Since the irig HD worked in both apps and the Roland EX worked with the Multitrack DAW at 48, its must be some kind of communications problem specific to this combination of Aura with the Roland duo EX or versions there of. Unless you have access to a Roland EX I'm not sure you will be able to reproduce this issue. I personally only have these 2 IOS input devices.
Also, crash files were sent to you after Auria restart.

Cheers,
Stewart

[Rim]

Interesting. Have you tried setting Auria's coreaudio mode to something else (like Legacy)? There's not much an app can do differently when communicating to a USB device. If it works in one app it usually works in another. However, Apple has a few CoreAudio modes, which Auria allows you to choose. Perhaps one of them isn't compatible with the Roland, and Multitrack DAW uses a different mode.

Rim

[Spud]

When I reported this issue a while back it was said to be due to the duocapture ex's lack of support for 48k and up on iOS devices. When the switch on the back is in the TAB(tablet) position it's running at 44.1k.

[Stewartludwig]

Him, all I can say is this particular Roland EX does record in my other apps at 48 KHz no problem on the ipad (using the tab for tablet setting) so I would assume this isn't the issue. I will contact Roland just in case to verify as they do advertise this item as working at 48 KHz on iPads.

Rim,
As far as the latest tests go for core audio settings I tried legacy, regular and multi app settings and none worked at 48KHz. In legacy mode with the EX plugged in Auria would just open for a second then crash. Under Multiapp Aura would open and a repeating hum cycle would start and then crash when recording. In normal mode ( for more detail) I can hit record and that repeating cycle starts in the background but I can hear the guitar fine and then after recording I can see the wave file after it is processed by Auria but when i hit play Auria starts to stutter and then crashes repeatedly.

Any other ideas ?
Cheers,
Stewart

[Spud]

Not wanting to start an argument here, but the manual says on page 10:

Select when connecting to a tablet device.
There is no need to install the included USB driver.
In this mode, the DUO-CAPTURE EX operates on power from the batteries or the optional
AC adaptor.
The sampling frequency is fixed at 44.1 kHz.

[Stewartludwig]

Spud,
Absolutely no argument here as I'm just happy to have an answer! Thanks.

I generally ignore manuals unless I have to so I'm glad you were paying attention as this saves me a lot of headache. Sadly I was also duped by the Multitrack DAW app supposedly recording in just fine on a 24 bit 48k project when the Roland was only putting out 44.1. This indeed miss directed myself as I assumed the I/O had to be on the same setting to be locked in synce digitally and since it " appeared" to work, well you can understand why I may have assumed the issue was in Auria. At least now I know the tell tale signs of mismatched frequencies in Auria. (Apparently there are none in Multitrack DAW.)

Any suggestions for another box to do 48k on ipad that runs on batteries, has phantom mic power, 2 balanced XLR/ 1/4 inch I/Os with separate monitor outs and headphones? 'twas a nice little portable unit until today.

Now to fight the fight with Roland about this waste of money as I was told hey no problem it does both 44 and 48 on the ipad!
Cheers and thanks again!

Rim, I want to thank you for your time and effort and sorry for the headache.
P.S. any movement n the new IGOG?

[Stewartludwig]

Update:

After further research I am finding other sources (2 so far) that have found the Roland EX is seemingly outputting 48KHz to the ipad 4 as I have just experienced. Either the roland is actually outputting its 48 KHz signal to the ipads when TAB is selected ( against Rolands own manual) or a bunch of ipad Audio apps are mssleading people. Since Auria wont lock to this signal and being suspicious I lean towards other apps being inferior and just saying they are 48 KHz capable when they are indeed not and only actually recording 44.1. As an altenative, any thoughts on how any app truly recording in at 48 KHz could possibly record a 44.1 signal?

Here's one example of the same findings with different apps but same ipad 4:
http://provideocoalition.com/atepper/st ... r-for-ipad

Ah the headaches...

[Spud]

Good find - adds to the mystery though! I don't have the interface here to test, but I know it crashed Auria on my friend's iPad 4 when 48k was selected, but was fine at 44.1k.

[Washboy]

Please excuse me butting in but I've been considering buying the device in question.

@Rim: I reckon this is the crucial part of the article mentioned above. Is it technically correct, Rim?

iPad-compatible audio devices which offer both 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz use software negotiation set within the capable 44.1/48 app to determine which sampling frequency it should use in their internal A>D (analog-to-digital) converter.

[Rim]

It's basically true, but it's sometimes complicated by devices which don't behave properly. Some devices don't support switching the sample rate via software, and cause issues in cases like this. We don't have a Due Capture here to test, but I think it's probably best to stay with 44.1 when using this device from what I'm reading in this thread.

Rim

[Stewartludwig]

Washboy,

Don't let this 48KHz thing scare you from the purchase as the Dou EX is a perfect solution in almost every way. Besdes i cannot find any altenative that fit all the other important critera that the Roland already does. I was just pissed at the moment of writing. Most audio people stick to 44.1 to record anyhow as the bit depth (24 in ths case) is far more important with regards to audible quality. Quite a few will argue that 48 with truncation / dithering to get to 44.1 in the end may actually give inferior results rather than just sticking to 44.1 all the way. Best then would be 88.2 KHz. Generally speaking the music industry sticks mostly to 44.1 and the film / TV world sticks to 48 KHz.


I'm still going to find the answer as to why it " appears" to work at 48KHz in some apps and not in others and of course post when I do but I figure its down to one of 3 possibilities:
1 -Either the Roland is more capable than they advertise ( wouldn't be the first time) .
2 -Some audio software on the IOS platform is not as accurate as described. ( claiming 48 when actually 44.1)
3 -Somehow and against all logic a 44.1 audio signal is able to be recorded at 48 on an ipad